Subtitles

he wrote to Ricardo Helms translation of 00:00:00

he wrote to Ricardo Helms translation of the Chinese Taoist text called the 00:00:03

secret of the golden flower it was young 00:00:09

who helped me to remind myself that I 00:00:13

was by upbringing and by tradition 00:00:15

always a westerner and I couldn't escape 00:00:18

from my own cultural conditioning and 00:00:23

that this inability to escape was not a 00:00:26

kind of prison God was the endowment of 00:00:30

one's being with certain capacities like 00:00:32

one's arms and legs and mouth and teeth 00:00:35

and brain which could always be used 00:00:38

constructively and I feel it's for this 00:00:43

reason that I have always remained for 00:00:47

myself in the position of the 00:00:49

comparative philosopher wanting to 00:00:52

balance east and west rather than to go 00:00:55

overboard with enthusiasm through exotic 00:00:57

imports but there are aspects of Jung's 00:01:01

work far beyond us that I want to 00:01:03

discuss and first of all I want to call 00:01:06

attention to one fundamental principle 00:01:11

that underlay all his work and that was 00:01:13

most extraordinarily an exemplar fired 00:01:16

in Jung himself as a person and this is 00:01:20

what I would call his recognition of the 00:01:23

polarity of life that is to say his 00:01:28

resistance to what is to my mind the 00:01:32

disastrous and absurd hypothesis that 00:01:37

there is in this universe a radical and 00:01:40

absolute conflict between good and evil 00:01:43

light and darkness that can never never 00:01:46

never be harmonized this conflict has 00:01:50

come up to us in a very vivid way in 00:01:52

recent days with the trial of Adolf 00:01:56

Eichmann 00:01:56

and with Arthur Koestler 00:02:00

passionate denunciation of any sort of philosophy of life and he's thinking in 00:02:11

mind he has in mind particularly Eastern 00:02:16

philosophers like my Buddhism and 00:02:19

Hinduism which so a slur the absolute 00:02:27

differences between good and evil that 00:02:30

in their name one could justify the sort 00:02:34

of crimes which were committed in the 00:02:36

concentration camps of Germany and it's 00:02:39

interesting to certain people accused 00:02:41

young also of Nazi sympathies because he 00:02:50

too would not subscribe to the absolute 00:02:57

state of a war between good and evil 00:03:01

going down to the very roots of the 00:03:04

universe 00:03:05

obviously when certain crimes and 00:03:12

catastrophes occur human emotions are 00:03:15

deeply and rightly aroused and I would 00:03:22

for myself say that were I in any 00:03:25

situation where an Iceman was operating 00:03:30

I would be roused to a degree of fury 00:03:30

that I can hardly imagine in my present existence but I know it would come out 00:03:42

from me I would oppose those sorts of 00:03:49

villainous with all the energy that I 00:03:52

have and if I was trapped in such a 00:03:55

situation I would fight it to the end 00:03:58

but at the same time I would recognize 00:04:03

the relativity of my own emotional 00:04:05

involvement I would know that I was 00:04:09

fighting a man like iseman 00:04:13

in the same way shall we say as a spider 00:04:19

and a wasp insects which naturally prey 00:04:23

upon one another and fight one another 00:04:25

do so that as a human being I would not 00:04:31

be able to regard my adversary as a 00:04:36

metaphysical devil that is to say as one 00:04:40

who represented the principal absolute 00:04:43

and unresolvable evil and I think this 00:04:48

is the most important thing in Jung 00:04:53

there he was able to point out that he 00:04:58

to the degree that you condemn others 00:05:01

and find evil in others you are to that 00:05:06

degree unconscious of the same thing in 00:05:08

yourself or at least of the potentiality 00:05:14

of it there can be Eichmann's and 00:05:19

hitler's and Himmler's just because 00:05:22

there are people who are unconscious of 00:05:26

their own dark sides and they project 00:05:30

that darkness outward into say Jews or 00:05:34

communists or whatever the enemy may be 00:05:36

and say there is the darkness it is not 00:05:39

in me and therefore because the darkness 00:05:42

is not in me I am justified in 00:05:45

annihilating this enemy whether it be 00:05:48

with atom bombs or gas chambers or 00:05:51

whatnot but to the degree that a person 00:05:55

becomes conscious that the evil is as 00:05:58

much in himself as in the other to this 00:06:02

same degree he is not likely to project 00:06:06

it on to some scapegoat and to MIT the 00:06:11

Muskrat and commit them as criminal acts 00:06:13

of violence on other people now this is 00:06:19

to me the primary thing that young saw 00:06:25

but in order to admit and really accept 00:06:30

and understand the evil in oneself one 00:06:33

had to be able to do it without being an 00:06:36

enemy to it as he put it you had to 00:06:40

accept your own dark side and he had 00:06:48

this pre-eminently in his own character 00:06:50

I had a long talk with him back in 1958 00:06:56

and I was enormous ly impressed with a 00:07:04

man who's obviously very great but at 00:07:06

the same time with whom everyone could 00:07:09

be completely at ease there are so many 00:07:12

great people 00:07:13

graded knowledge or great in what is 00:07:15

called holiness with whom the ordinary 00:07:18

individual feels rather embarrassed he 00:07:20

feels inclined to sit on the edge of his 00:07:21

chair and to feel immediately judged by 00:07:26

this person's wisdom or sanctity young 00:07:29

managed to have wisdom and I think also 00:07:31

sanctity in such a way that when other 00:07:34

people came into its presence they 00:07:36

didn't feel judged they felt enhanced 00:07:44

encouraged and invited to share in a 00:07:51

common life and there was a sort of 00:07:54

twinkle in Jung's eye it gave me the 00:07:58

impression that he knew himself to be is 00:08:04

just as much of villain as everybody 00:08:08

else 00:08:09

there's a nice German word in today 00:08:11

danke which means a thought in the very 00:08:13

far far back of your mind you only had a 00:08:16

hint at the danke in the back of his 00:08:18

mind which showed it showed in the 00:08:21

twinkle in his eye it showed that he 00:08:27

knew and recognized what I have 00:08:30

sometimes called the element of 00:08:32

irreducible rascality in himself 00:08:32

and he knew it so strongly and so clearly and in a way so lovingly that he 00:08:41

would not condemn the same thing in 00:08:47

others and therefore would not be led 00:08:51

into those thoughts feelings and acts of 00:08:55

violence towards others which are always 00:08:59

characteristic of the people who project 00:09:02

the devil in themselves upon the outside 00:09:07

upon somebody else upon the scapegoat 00:09:09

now this made young a very integrated 00:09:13

character in other words you know I have 00:09:16

to present a little bit of a complex 00:09:18

idea he was a man who was thoroughly 00:09:21

with himself having seen and accepted 00:09:27

his own nature profoundly he had a kind 00:09:34

of unity and absence of conflict in his 00:09:38

own nature which had to it this 00:09:41

additional complication that I find so 00:09:43

fascinating he was the sort of man who 00:09:46

could feel anxious and afraid and guilty 00:09:50

without being ashamed of feeling this 00:09:54

way in other words he understood that an 00:10:00

integrated person is not a person who 00:10:02

simply eliminated the sense of guilt or 00:10:05

the saint's sense of anxiety from his 00:10:07

life who was fearless and wooden and 00:10:11

kind of sage of stone he's a person who 00:10:15

feels all these things but has no 00:10:17

recrimination against himself for 00:10:19

feeling them and this is to my mind a 00:10:23

profound kind of humor now in humor 00:10:27

there's always a certain element of 00:10:29

malice there was a talk given on the 00:10:31

Pacifica stations just a little while 00:10:34

ago which was an interview with our cap 00:10:36

and our cap made the point that he felt 00:10:39

that all humans fundamentally malicious 00:10:41

now I was a very high kind of humor 00:10:44

which is humor at oneself 00:10:44

a real humor is not jokes at the expense of others there's always jokes at the 00:10:55

expense of oneself and of course it has 00:10:59

an element of malice in it it has malice 00:11:02

towards oneself the recognition of the 00:11:06

fact that behind the social role that 00:11:09

you assume behind all your pretensions 00:11:12

to being either a good citizen or a fine 00:11:15

scholar or a great scientist or a 00:11:21

leading politician or physician or 00:11:24

whatever you happen to be the behind 00:11:27

this facade there is a certain element 00:11:31

of the unreconstructed bum not as 00:11:36

something to be condemned and wailed 00:11:38

over but as something to be recognized 00:11:41

as contributed to one's greatness and to 00:11:46

one's positive aspects in the same way 00:11:48

that manure is contributed to the 00:11:50

perfume of the rose yun saw this and 00:11:56

Jung accepted this and I want to read a 00:12:01

passage from one of his lectures which I 00:12:05

think is one of the greatest things he 00:12:07

ever wrote and which has been very 00:12:11

marvelous thing for me it was in a 00:12:13

lecture delivered to a group of clergy 00:12:15

in Switzerland considerable number of 00:12:19

years ago and he writes as follows 00:12:24

people forget that even doctors had 00:12:28

moral scruples and that certain patients 00:12:31

confessions are hard even for a doctor 00:12:34

to swallow yet the patient does not feel 00:12:38

himself accepted unless the very worst 00:12:41

in him is accepted - no one could bring 00:12:45

this about by mere words it comes only 00:12:48

through reflection and through the 00:12:50

doctors attitude towards himself and his 00:12:52

own dark side if the doctor wants to 00:12:56

guide another or even accompany him a 00:12:58

step of the way 00:12:59

he must feel with that 00:13:02

and Psyche he never feels it when he 00:13:06

passes judgment whether he puts his 00:13:09

judgments into words or keeps them to 00:13:11

himself makes not the slightest 00:13:12

difference to take the opposite position 00:13:15

and to agree with the patient offhand is 00:13:18

also of no use feeling comes only 00:13:21

through unprejudiced objectivity this 00:13:24

sounds almost like a scientific precept 00:13:26

and it could be confused with a purely 00:13:29

intellectual abstract attitude of mind 00:13:31

but what I mean is something quite 00:13:33

different it is a human quality a kind 00:13:37

of deep respect for the facts for the 00:13:39

man who suffers from them and for the 00:13:42

riddle of such a man's life 00:13:44

the truly religious person has this 00:13:47

attitude he knows that God has brought 00:13:50

all sorts of strange and inconceivable 00:13:52

things to pass and seeks in the most 00:13:55

curious ways to enter a man's heart he 00:13:58

therefore senses in everything the 00:14:01

unseen presence of the divine will this 00:14:04

is what I mean by unprejudiced 00:14:06

objectivity it is a moral achievement on 00:14:09

the part of the doctor who ought not to 00:14:11

let himself be repelled by sickness and 00:14:14

corruption we cannot change anything 00:14:17

unless we accept it 00:14:20

condemnation does not liberate it 00:14:23

oppresses I am the oppressor of the 00:14:26

person I condemn not his friend and 00:14:29

fellow sufferer I do not in the least 00:14:31

mean to say that we must never pass 00:14:33

judgment when we desire to help and 00:14:35

improve but if the doctor wishes to help 00:14:38

a human being he must be able to accept 00:14:41

him as he is and he can do this in 00:14:44

reality only when he has already seen 00:14:47

and accepted himself as he is perhaps 00:14:51

this sounds very simple but simple 00:14:53

things are always the most difficult in 00:14:57

actual life it requires the greatest art 00:14:59

to be simple and so acceptance of 00:15:03

oneself is the essence of the moral 00:15:05

problem and the acid test of one's whole 00:15:08

outlook on life that I feed the beggar 00:15:12

that I forgive an insult that I love my 00:15:15

enemy in the name 00:15:16

of Christ all these are undoubtedly 00:15:18

great virtues what I do under the least 00:15:22

of my brethren that I do under Christ 00:15:24

but what if I should discover that the 00:15:27

least amongst them all the poorest of 00:15:29

all beggars the most impudent of all 00:15:31

offenders yea the very fiend himself 00:15:33

that these are within me and that I 00:15:37

myself stand in need of the arms of my 00:15:40

own kindness that I myself am the enemy 00:15:43

who must be loved water then then as a 00:15:47

rule the whole truth of Christianity is 00:15:49

reversed there is then no more talk of 00:15:53

love and long-suffering we say to the 00:15:56

brother within us raqqa and condemn and 00:15:58

rage against ourselves we hide him from 00:16:02

the world we deny ever having met this 00:16:04

least among will only in ourselves and 00:16:06

had it been God himself who drew near to 00:16:08

us in this despicable form we should 00:16:11

have denied him a thousand times before 00:16:13

a single had crowed well you may 00:16:23

think the metaphors rather strong but I 00:16:29

feel that they are not so needlessly 00:16:33

this is a very very forceful passage and 00:16:36

a memorable one in all Young's works 00:16:36

trying to heal this insanity from which our culture in particular has suffered 00:16:49

of thinking that a human being can 00:16:56

become hale healthy and holy by being 00:17:01

divided against himself in inner 00:17:04

conflict paralleling the conception of a 00:17:08

cosmic conflict between an absolute good 00:17:10

and an absolute evil which cannot be 00:17:14

reduced to any prior and underlying 00:17:18

unity 00:17:18

in other words our rage and our very proper rage against evil things which 00:17:26

occur in this world must not overstep 00:17:35

itself for if we require as a 00:17:40

justification for our rage 00:17:42

a fundamental and metaphysical division 00:17:46

between good and evil we have an insane 00:17:49

and in a certain sense schizophrenic 00:17:51

universe of which no sense whatsoever 00:17:54

can be made all conflict Jung was saying 00:18:00

all opposition has its resolution in an 00:18:03

underlying unity you cannot understand 00:18:07

the meaning of to be unless you 00:18:09

understand the meaning of not to be you 00:18:12

cannot understand the meaning of good 00:18:14

unless you understand the meaning of 00:18:15

evil even some Thomas Aquinas saw this 00:18:18

so he said the justice that is the 00:18:21

silent pause which gives sweetness to 00:18:24

the chant so it is suffering and so it 00:18:27

is evil which makes possible the 00:18:30

recognition of virtue this is not as 00:18:36

jung tries to explain a philosophy of 00:18:38

condoning the evil to take the opposite 00:18:43

position he said and to agree with the 00:18:45

patient offhand is also of no use but as 00:18:47

strangers in the doctor or exchanges him 00:18:51

the patient as much as condemnation let 00:18:58

me continue further reading from this 00:19:01

extraordinary passage healing may be 00:19:06

called Jung says a religious problem in 00:19:10

the sphere of social or national 00:19:12

relations the state of suffering may be 00:19:15

Civil War and this state is to be cured 00:19:19

by the Christian virtue the forgiveness 00:19:22

and love of one's enemies that which we 00:19:27

recommend with the conviction of good 00:19:29

Christians as applicable to external 00:19:31

situations we must also apply inwardly 00:19:34

in the treatment of neurosis 00:19:36

this is why modern man has heard enough 00:19:39

about guilt and sin he is sorely beset 00:19:43

by his own bad conscience and once 00:19:46

rather to know how he is to reconcile 00:19:49

himself with his own nature how he is to 00:19:52

love the enemy in his own heart and call 00:19:55

the wolf his brother the modern man does 00:19:59

not want to know in what way he can 00:20:00

imitate Christ but in what way he can 00:20:03

live his own individual life however 00:20:06

meager an uninteresting it may be it is 00:20:11

because every form of imitation seems to 00:20:14

him deadening and sterile that he rebels 00:20:17

against the force of tradition that 00:20:19

would hold him to well trodden ways all 00:20:23

such roads for him lead in the wrong 00:20:25

direction he may not know it but he 00:20:28

behaves as if his own individual life 00:20:30

were God's special will which must be 00:20:33

fulfilled at all costs this is the 00:20:36

source of his beggar ism which is one of 00:20:39

the most tangible evils of the neurotic 00:20:41

state but the person who tells him he is 00:20:46

too egoistic has already lost his 00:20:48

confidence and rightfully so for that 00:20:51

person has driven him still further into 00:20:54

his neuroses if I wish to effect a cure 00:20:58

for my patients I am forced to have 00:21:01

knowledge the deep significance of their 00:21:03

egoism I should be blind indeed if I did 00:21:07

not recognize it as a true will of God I 00:21:11

must even help the patient to prevail in 00:21:14

his egoism if he succeeds in this he 00:21:17

estranges himself from other people he 00:21:20

drives them away and they come to 00:21:22

themselves as they should for they were 00:21:24

seeking to rob him of his sacred egoism 00:21:27

this must be left to him for it is his 00:21:31

strongest and healthiest power it is as 00:21:34

I have said a true will of God which 00:21:37

sometimes drives him into complete 00:21:39

isolation 00:21:41

however wretched the state may be it 00:21:43

also stands him in good stead for in 00:21:47

this way alone can he get to know 00:21:49

himself 00:21:49

and learn what an invaluable treasure is 00:21:52

the love of his fellow beings it is 00:21:55

moreover only in the state of complete 00:21:58

abandonment and loneliness that we 00:22:01

experience the helpful powers of our own 00:22:04

natures end of quote this is a very 00:22:12

striking example of Young's power to 00:22:16

comprehend and integrate points of view 00:22:20

as well as psychological attitudes that 00:22:22

seem on the surface to be completely 00:22:24

antithetical for example even in his own 00:22:28

work when he was devoting himself to the 00:22:31

study of Eastern philosophy he had some 00:22:34

difficulty in comprehending the let's 00:22:38

say the Buddhistic denial of the reality 00:22:41

of the ego but you can see that in 00:22:47

practice in what he was actually trying 00:22:50

to get at he was moving towards the same 00:22:53

position that is intended in both the 00:22:56

Hindu and Buddhist philosophy about the 00:23:00

nature of the ego just for example as 00:23:03

the Hindu will say that the eye 00:23:07

principle in man it is not really a 00:23:10

separate ego but an expression of the 00:23:12

universal life of Brahman or the Godhead 00:23:15

so Jung is saying yeah that the 00:23:19

development of the ego in man is a true 00:23:22

will of God and that it is only by 00:23:25

following the ego that one and 00:23:29

developing it to its full extent that 00:23:33

one fulfills the function which this you 00:23:38

might say temporary illusion has in 00:23:40

man's psychic life for he goes on and 00:23:43

says here when one has several times 00:23:45

seen this development at work one can no 00:23:48

longer deny that what was evil has 00:23:50

turned good and that what seemed good 00:23:52

has kept alive the forces of evil the 00:23:55

Archdemon of egoism leads us along the 00:23:58

Royal Road to that in gathering which 00:24:01

religious experience damar 00:24:03

what we observe here is the fundamental 00:24:06

law of life in an teardro mia or 00:24:10

conversion into the opposite and it is 00:24:14

this that makes possible the reunion of 00:24:16

the warring halves of the personality 00:24:18

and thereby brings the civil war to an 00:24:21

end end of quote 00:24:24

in other words he was seeing that as 00:24:30

blake said a fool who persists in his 00:24:32

folly will become wise that the 00:24:35

development of egoism in man is not 00:24:37

something to be overcome or better 00:24:40

integrated by opposition to it but by 00:24:45

following it it's almost isn't it the 00:24:48

principle of Judo not overcoming what 00:24:52

appears to be a hostile force by 00:24:54

opposing it but by swinging was the 00:24:57

punch or rolling with the punch and so 00:25:01

by following the ego the ego transcends 00:25:05

itself and in this moment of insight the 00:25:12

great Westerner who comes out of a whole 00:25:15

tradition of human personality which 00:25:17

centers it upon the ego upon individual 00:25:21

separateness by going along consistently 00:25:26

with this principle comes to the same 00:25:29

position as the Easterner that is to say 00:25:34

to the point of view where one sees 00:25:40

conflict which at first sight had seemed 00:25:44

absolute as resting upon a primordial 00:25:49

unity thereby attaining a profound 00:25:55

unshakable peace of the heart which can 00:26:01

nevertheless contain conflict not a 00:26:07

peace that is simply static and lifeless 00:26:13

but a peace 00:26:16

that passes understanding you've been 00:26:21

listening to Helen Lots with it 00:26:21

finishing off our lecture tribute to Carl Jung tonight and Alan Watts here on 00:26:34

WFMU you yeah we'll be right back in a 00:26:40

second with part two tonight's program 00:26:44

is seeing through the game taking until 00:26:46

7 o'clock and Joe Frank at that time 00:26:48

this is freeform listening sponsored wfm 00:26:51

you in Jersey City Alan Watts brought to 00:26:54

you every Thursday night at 6:00 you can 00:26:56

write to us for more information 00:26:57

P o box 201 1 Jersey City New Jersey o 7 00:27:01

303 stay tuned I suppose that some of 00:27:31

you have read very fascinating work that 00:27:35

was written many years ago by a CG young 00:27:37

the commentary that he wrote to a 00:27:41

translation of a Chinese classic by 00:27:44

Ricard vilhelm called the secret of the 00:27:47

golden flower now you may remember that 00:27:52

in that commentary he takes up the very 00:27:56

fascinating problem of the dangers 00:27:59

inherent in the adoption of oriental 00:28:05

ways of life by Westerners but more 00:28:09

particularly the adoption of oriental 00:28:11

spiritual practices such as yoga and I 00:28:17

remember I learned a great deal from 00:28:20

that essay and appreciated it very much 00:28:22

in ever so many ways 00:28:26

because even in my own fascination with 00:28:31

forms of oriental philosophy I have 00:28:35

never been tempted to forget that I'm a 00:28:37

westerner but as I think this essay over 00:28:44

I'm not sure that young discouraged the 00:28:49

practice of yoga by Westerners for quite 00:28:52

the right reasons 00:28:53

I find so often the difficulty in Jung's 00:28:58

ideas lies in his theory of history 00:28:58

which is I feel a hangover from nineteenth-century series of history 00:29:09

encouraged by Darwinism namely that there's a sort of orderly progression 00:29:20

from the ape through the primitive to 00:29:27

the civilized man and of course 00:29:30

naturally at that time that was all 00:29:32

hitched in was a theory of progress and 00:29:34

it was highly convenient for the 00:29:37

cultures of Western Europe which were 00:29:38

then a one-up on everybody else to 00:29:42

consider themselves in the van of 00:29:43

progress and when they visited the 00:29:45

natives of Borneo and Australia and so 00:29:48

on to be able to feel that they were 00:29:50

perfectly justified in appropriating 00:29:53

their lands and dominating them because 00:29:54

they were giving them the benefits of 00:29:56

the last word in evolution and therefore 00:30:03

under the influence of that sort of 00:30:05

theory of history which is felt in the 00:30:08

work of both Freud and Jung one gets the 00:30:13

feeling of there being a kind of 00:30:17

progressive development of human 00:30:21

consciousness and Jung is charitable 00:30:23

enough to assume that because the 00:30:24

Chinese and Indian civilizations are 00:30:27

immeasurably older than ours 00:30:28

they've had the first the possibility of 00:30:31

far more sophistication in psychic 00:30:34

development even 00:30:37

though he feels and probably rightly 00:30:39

that there are things they can learn 00:30:40

from us but the reason why he 00:30:43

discourages the Westerner from the 00:30:45

practice of yoga is that he says this is 00:30:47

a discipline for a far older culture 00:30:50

than ours which along certain lines has 00:30:54

progressed much further and has learned 00:30:57

certain things that we haven't mastered 00:30:58

at all yet 00:30:59

thus he points out that when somebody 00:31:02

embraces they don't or theosophy or any 00:31:06

yoga school in the West and tries to 00:31:11

master a discipline of concentration in 00:31:15

which they have to roust from their 00:31:21

consciousness all wandering thoughts he 00:31:24

says that this for a westerner may be a 00:31:26

very dangerous thing indeed because just 00:31:27

exactly what the Westerner meinen need 00:31:30

to do is to allow free rein to his 00:31:34

wandering thoughts and his imagination 00:31:36

and his fantasy because it's only in 00:31:38

this way that he can get in touch with 00:31:40

his unconscious and that his unconscious 00:31:44

will not leave him in peace until he 00:31:45

gets in touch with it he assumes the 00:31:48

members of Oriental cultures have done 00:31:50

this long before they went in for yoga 00:31:53

practice now I don't think this is quite 00:31:56

true but I do think there are other 00:32:00

reasons why Western people need to 00:32:07

exercise a good deal of discrimination 00:32:09

and cautioned in adopting Eastern 00:32:15

disciplines and ways of life in other 00:32:20

words it's rather like the problem of 00:32:22

taking medicine you know if you don't 00:32:25

feel very well and you go to a friend's 00:32:28

medicine cabinet and you can sort of 00:32:29

look it over and see bottles of medicine 00:32:31

in there and you said I'm sick I need 00:32:34

medicine so you take some medicine any 00:32:36

medicine will do well it won't and 00:32:36

according to what's the matter with you so the medicine has to be prescribed and 00:32:42

I don't think that the things which some 00:32:48

of the Eastern disciplines are designed 00:32:50

to cure 00:32:50

are quite the same things that we need 00:32:54

now it's fundamental to my view of the 00:33:02

nature of such forms of discipline as 00:33:05

Buddhism and Taoism that there are ways 00:33:09

of liberation from a specific kind of 00:33:13

confinement that is to say their ways of 00:33:17

liberation from what I've sometimes 00:33:19

called the social hypnosis in other 00:33:25

words every culture every society as a 00:33:33

group of people in communication with 00:33:35

each other has certain rules of 00:33:38

communication and from culture to 00:33:42

culture these rules differ in just the 00:33:45

same way that languages differ and a 00:33:48

culture can hold together on very very 00:33:51

different kinds of rules I won't say any 00:33:53

kinds of rules but very different kinds 00:33:55

of rules always provided that the 00:33:58

members agree about them whether they 00:33:59

are forced to agree whether they agree 00:34:01

tacitly or whatever the reason may be 00:34:01

and these rules are in a way it's very much like the rules of a game in other 00:34:09

words take a game like chess you can 00:34:18

have the kind of chess we play with an 00:34:20

eight square board or you can have a 00:34:23

kind of chess that the Japanese play 00:34:25

with a nine square board I doesn't make 00:34:29

any difference so long as you both play 00:34:31

on the same board and by the same rules 00:34:33

but since this is a chess as a game and 00:34:41

in the same way the development of human 00:34:44

cultures is also in a way a game that is 00:34:46

to say it's the elaboration of a form of 00:34:48

life and the fun of it in a way is the 00:34:53

fun of elaborating it in just some 00:34:56

interesting form that's the same as the 00:34:59

fun of a game the fun of a game is it 00:35:01

has a certain interest 00:35:03

but it doesn't follow that the rules of 00:35:08

the game correspond to the actual 00:35:13

structure of human nature or to the laws 00:35:17

of the universe the because in every 00:35:20

culture it's necessary to impress upon 00:35:22

especially its younger members that 00:35:25

these rules jolly will have to be kept 00:35:27

they are usually in some way or other 00:35:32

connected with the laws of the universe 00:35:35

and given some sort of divine sanction 00:35:37

and there are indeed cultures in which 00:35:41

the senior members of the group realized 00:35:45

that that's a hoax that that's as if 00:35:48

it's a made-up and is done to terrify 00:35:51

the young and when they become senior 00:35:55

members of the cult of themselves they 00:35:56

see through the thing but they don't let 00:35:58

on they keep it quiet they don't let out 00:36:01

- those were supposed to be impressed 00:36:02

that this was really a hoax to get them 00:36:04

to behave well anyway after a great deal 00:36:12

of careful study I've come to the 00:36:14

conclusion that the function of these 00:36:17

ways of liberation is basically to make 00:36:24

it possible for those who have the 00:36:26

determination and we'll see why in a 00:36:31

while to make it possible for those who 00:36:33

have the determination to be free from 00:36:37

the social hypnosis in other words if 00:36:42

you were a member of the culture of 00:36:45

India at almost any time between maybe 00:36:49

900 BC and 1800 ad it would be for you a 00:37:00

matter of common sense about which 00:37:04

everybody agreed that you were under the 00:37:08

control of a process called Karma not 00:37:13

exactly a law of 00:37:15

and effect but a process of cosmic 00:37:20

justice whereby every fortune that 00:37:25

occurred to you would be the result of 00:37:28

some action in the past that was good 00:37:30

and every misfortune that occurred to 00:37:33

you would be the result of some action 00:37:36

in the past that was evil and 00:37:37

furthermore that this action in the past 00:37:41

might not have been done in this present 00:37:43

life but in a former life it was simply 00:37:45

axiomatic to those people that they were 00:37:49

involved in a long long process of 00:37:52

reincarnation reaping the rewards and 00:37:56

punishments and there were not only 00:38:01

there was not only the possibility of 00:38:03

being reincarnated again in the human 00:38:06

form but if you were exceedingly good 00:38:09

you might be born in one of the heavens 00:38:10

the paradises and if you were 00:38:12

exceedingly bad you might be born for an 00:38:15

insufferable period of years not forever 00:38:18

in a purgatory and the purgatory is of 00:38:22

the Hindus and Buddhists are just as 00:38:24

ingeniously horrible as those of the 00:38:26

Christians 00:38:27

well of course everybody knows I mean 00:38:31

anybody seems to me have any sense that 00:38:33

all this imagination of post-mortem 00:38:39

Courts of Justice is a way of telling 00:38:43

people well if the secular police don't 00:38:46

catch you the celestial police will 00:38:48

catch you and therefore you would better 00:38:50

behave and it's an ingenious device for 00:38:53

encouraging ethical conduct now but 00:39:01

remember that for a person brought up in 00:39:03

that climate of feeling where everybody 00:39:05

believes this to be true 00:39:07

it seems a matter of sheer common sense 00:39:10

that it's so and is very difficult for a 00:39:15

person so brought up not to believe that 00:39:19

that is the state of affairs take an 00:39:23

equivalent situation in our own culture 00:39:27

it's still enormous ly difficult for 00:39:27

it's still enormous ly difficult for most people to believe that space may 00:39:29

not be Newtonian space that is to say a 00:39:36

three dimensional continuum which 00:39:39

extends indefinitely forever the idea of 00:39:42

a four-dimensional curved space seems 00:39:45

absolutely fantastic and can't even be 00:39:47

conceived by people Unversed in the 00:39:51

mathematics of modern physics or again 00:39:55

as I've often pointed out it's very 00:39:57

difficult for us to believe that the 00:40:01

forms of nature are not made of some 00:40:03

stuff called matter that's a very 00:40:09

unnecessary idea or from a strictly 00:40:11

scientific point of view but it's 00:40:13

awfully difficult for us to believe it 00:40:14

to believe in other words that there 00:40:16

isn't this underlying stuff and not so 00:40:22

long ago it was practically impossible 00:40:26

for people to conceive that the planets 00:40:30

did not revolve about the earth encased 00:40:34

in crystalline spheres and it took a 00:40:40

very considerable shaking of the 00:40:42

imagination when astronomers began to 00:40:46

point out that this need not necessarily 00:40:48

be so all right so now let's go back to 00:40:53

the problem of somebody living in the 00:40:55

culture of ancient India here it is as a 00:40:57

matter of common sense you see that he's 00:41:00

going to be reborn now the some perhaps 00:41:05

exceedingly intelligent person who for 00:41:12

one reason or another discovers that 00:41:14

this idea is not so after all when you 00:41:22

get such disciplines as Vedanta and 00:41:24

Buddhism they say that the ultimate goal 00:41:30

of the discipline is release from the 00:41:34

rounds of rebirth and incidentally also 00:41:37

which is fundamental to it 00:41:40

lise from the illusion that you are a 00:41:44

separate individual confined to this 00:41:47

body but so far as both of these things 00:41:54

are concerned they also say that the 00:41:57

person who is liberated from the round 00:41:59

of rebirth as well as from the illusion 00:42:01

of being an ego sees when he is 00:42:04

liberated that the process of rebirth 00:42:08

and the whole cosmology of reincarnation 00:42:11

and karma as well as the event 00:42:13

individual ego are in a way illusions 00:42:17

that is to say he sees that they are 00:42:19

Maya and I would like to translate Maya 00:42:23

at this moment not so much illusion as a 00:42:26

playful construct a social institution 00:42:26

so he sees you see that those things are not so they are only pretended to be so 00:42:35

and you see he ceases to believe in 00:42:45

karma and reincarnation and all that in 00:42:48

exactly the same way that a modern 00:42:50

agnostic no longer believes in the 00:42:53

resurrection of the body of the day of 00:42:54

judgment I I know this to be so because 00:43:01

although you will get very many Hindus 00:43:05

and Buddhists who say that they believe 00:43:07

in reincarnation and come over here and 00:43:13

teach it as part of the doctrine of 00:43:16

Vedanta or Buddhism the the most 00:43:21

sophisticated and the most profound I'll 00:43:24

say perhaps profound rather than 00:43:26

sophisticated Buddhist that I have known 00:43:30

have said that they don't believe in it 00:43:34

literally at all and so I could say that 00:43:42

those who do believe in it believe in it 00:43:45

simply because it's part of their 00:43:48

culture and they've not yet been able to 00:43:51

be liberated from it 00:43:51

and so it seems to me very funny indeed when Western people who become 00:43:58

interested in Vedanta or Buddhism that 00:44:07

is to say in forms of discipline to 00:44:11

liberate Hindus and Chinese people from 00:44:16

certain social institutions Western 00:44:21

people adopt it and then also adopt the 00:44:26

ideas of reincarnation and karma from 00:44:28

which these systems were designed to 00:44:30

liberate them of course they adopt them 00:44:35

because they feel it's consoling that 00:44:38

one will go on living and that wasn't 00:44:39

the point at all or that it explains 00:44:42

something that y1 suffered in this life 00:44:45

was not because the universe was unjust 00:44:48

but because you committed some misdeed 00:44:49

in the past and so Westerners who take 00:44:56

up the oriental doctrines in that spirit 00:45:01

unfortunately take up the very illusions 00:45:04

from which these doctrines were supposed 00:45:07

to be ways of deliverance now that may 00:45:14

be difficult to see just because so many 00:45:18

practicing Hindus and Buddhists say they 00:45:22

believe in reincarnation and this whole 00:45:25

process of the cycles of karma and so on 00:45:28

and they after all are practicing it and 00:45:36

they should know well now look here 00:45:39

there's a certain good reason where they 00:45:41

shouldn't 00:45:43

of course I'm making an exception of the 00:45:47

Indian or Chinese who has been educated 00:45:51

in western style and he ceases to 00:45:56

believe maybe in the cosmologies of his 00:45:59

own culture but he's not liberated in 00:46:02

the Buddhist sense because in receiving 00:46:03

a Western education he's become a victim 00:46:05

of our social 00:46:06

institutions instead and he's just 00:46:08

exchanged as it were one trouble for 00:46:10

another but when you take the situation 00:46:16

as it stands or as it did stand in India 00:46:20

isolated from Western culture obviously 00:46:24

no society can tolerate within its own 00:46:28

borders the existence of a way of 00:46:30

liberation a way of seeing through its 00:46:33

institutions without feeling that such a 00:46:39

way constitutes a threat to law and 00:46:42

order anybody who sees through the 00:46:44

institutions of society and sees them 00:46:47

for as it were creative fictions in the 00:46:50

same way as a novel or a work of art as 00:46:52

a creative fiction anybody who sees that 00:46:55

of course could be regarded by the 00:46:56

society as a potential Menace but then 00:47:03

you may ask well if if Buddhism and and 00:47:05

Vedanta and so on were indeed ways of 00:47:07

liberation how could Indian or Chinese 00:47:09

society or Burmese society have 00:47:12

tolerated their presence well the answer 00:47:15

lies simply in the much misunderstood 00:47:18

esotericism of these disciplines in 00:47:23

other words that those who taught them 00:47:26

the masters of these disciplines made it 00:47:29

incredibly difficult for uninitiated 00:47:32

people to get in on the inside and their 00:47:38

method of initiating them in a way was 00:47:43

to put them through trap after trap 00:47:47

after trap to see if they could find 00:47:50

their way through in other words such a 00:48:00

master would not dream of beginning by 00:48:04

disabusing the neophyte and saying well 00:48:09

you know all these things you heard from 00:48:10

your father and mother and teachers and 00:48:13

so on were fairy tales oh no indeed 00:48:13

he would do what is called in Buddhism exercise the use of rupiah the Sanskrit 00:48:25

word meaning skillful devices or 00:48:32

skillful means sometimes described as 00:48:36

giving a child a yellow leaf to stop it 00:48:40

crying for gold after all when you 00:48:47

approach one of these ways of liberation 00:48:50

from the outside it looks like something 00:48:54

very very fantastic here you are 00:48:59

literally going to be released from a 00:49:04

literally true and physical cycle of 00:49:08

endless incarnations in heavens and 00:49:12

hell's and all kinds of states and 00:49:16

therefore naturally to do that what an 00:49:18

undertaking that must be what a 00:49:19

wonderful extraordinary person you've 00:49:22

got become and so the neophyte is ready 00:49:28

for almost anything and the teacher 00:49:33

because the the fundamental problem in 00:49:36

this whole thing is for him to get rid 00:49:43

of the illusion you see that he's a 00:49:45

separate ego if there's no separate ego 00:49:47

or sort of soul then there's nothing to 00:49:50

be reincarnated so all the teacher 00:49:53

really in his all kinds of complicated 00:49:56

ways of doing it all that he really says 00:49:58

to him is well now if you will look 00:50:03

deeply into your ego you will find out 00:50:07

that it is a non ego that your self is 00:50:11

the universal self as he might say if he 00:50:13

would have a dentist or if he were a 00:50:16

Buddhist 00:50:16

he might say if you look for your ego 00:50:19

you wouldn't find it so look for it see 00:50:23

and really go into it and so he gets the 00:50:28

man meditating 00:50:31

and trying by his ego to get rid of his 00:50:34

ego well that is a beautiful trap it can 00:50:40

last forever until one sees through it 00:50:44

in other words this is like trying to 00:50:44

you know sweep the darkness out of a room with a broom or it's like it's 00:50:54

worse than that 00:51:00

loud sigh drugs are rather had a nice 00:51:03

figure for it beating a drum in such of 00:51:05

a fugitive that's to say you know when 00:51:08

the police go out because they've had a 00:51:10

telephone call that was a burglar they 00:51:13

come racing to the house with a siren 00:51:16

full blast and the burglar hears it and 00:51:19

runs away because of course to try and 00:51:25

get rid of the ego for ones advantage in 00:51:27

some way as an egotistic enterprise and 00:51:29

you can't do it well so of course the 00:51:33

student gets to the point where he 00:51:35

begins to realize that everything he 00:51:38

does to get rid of his ego is he good to 00:51:43

stick and this is the kind of trap in 00:51:52

which the teacher gets him until of 00:51:56

course he comes to the point of seeing 00:51:58

that his supposed division from himself 00:52:03

in to say I and me the controller 00:52:06

controlling part of me and the 00:52:08

controlled part of me the knower and the 00:52:10

known and all that is is firmly there is 00:52:13

no way of standing aside from yourself 00:52:15

in other words and as it were changing 00:52:18

yourself in that way but he discovers 00:52:21

this finally at the same time he 00:52:26

discovers almost at the last minute you 00:52:29

might say the fallacy or rather the 00:52:36

fantasy nature the game-like nature of 00:52:43

the system of cosmology which has 00:52:48

existed to as it were underpin or give 00:52:56

the basic form of the social 00:52:59

institutions of his particular culture 00:53:02

or Society in other words you may put it 00:53:07

in it in another way one of the basic 00:53:10

things which all social rules of 00:53:13

convention conceal is what I would call 00:53:17

the fundamental fellowship between yes 00:53:21

and now say in the Chinese symbolism of 00:53:25

the positive and the negative the young 00:53:27

and the yin you know you've seen that 00:53:29

symbol of them together like two 00:53:31

interlocked fishes well the great game I 00:53:35

mean a whole pretense of most societies 00:53:37

that these two fishes are involved in a 00:53:39

battle there's the up fish and the down 00:53:41

fish the good fish and the bad fish and 00:53:43

there's art for killing the white fish 00:53:46

is one of these days gonna slay the 00:53:48

black fish but when you see into it 00:53:53

clearly you realize that the white fish 00:53:55

and the black fish go together 00:53:57

there are twins they're really not 00:53:59

fighting each other they're dancing with 00:54:00

each other that you see though is a 00:54:04

difficult thing to realize in a set of 00:54:08

rules in which yes and no are the basic 00:54:11

and formally opposed terms when it is 00:54:16

explicit in a set of rules that yes and 00:54:19

no or positive and negative or the 00:54:21

fundamental principles it is implicit 00:54:25

but not explicit that there is this 00:54:28

fundamental bondage or fellowship 00:54:31

between the two the fear is you see that 00:54:35

if people find that out they won't play 00:54:39

the game anymore I mean supposing a 00:54:41

certain social group finds out that its 00:54:44

enemy group which it's supposed to fight 00:54:47

is really symbiotic to it that is to say 00:54:53

the enemy group 00:54:53

fosters the survival of the group by pruning its population we'd never do to 00:55:01

admit that it never never do to admit 00:55:07

the advantage of the enemy just as 00:55:08

George Orwell pointed out in his fantasy 00:55:12

of the future in 1984 that a dictatorial 00:55:17

government has to have an enemy and if 00:55:20

there isn't one it has to invent one and 00:55:23

[Music] 00:55:25

by this means by having something to 00:55:28

fight you see having something to 00:55:29

compete against the energy of society to 00:55:33

go on doing its job is stirred up and 00:55:37

what the Buddha or Bodhisattva type of 00:55:41

person fundamentally is is one he's one 00:55:43

who seen through that who doesn't have 00:55:46

to be stirred up by hatred and fear and 00:55:49

competition to go on with the game of 00:55:52

life 00:55:52