Subtitles

when an Enquirer about Zen came to a 00:00:00

when an Enquirer about Zen came to a 00:00:06

when an Enquirer about Zen came to a master often you know they approach a 00:00:06

master often you know they approach a 00:00:11

master often you know they approach a Zen master with a kind of key question 00:00:11

Zen master with a kind of key question 00:00:14

Zen master with a kind of key question what is the fundamental principle of 00:00:14

what is the fundamental principle of 00:00:17

what is the fundamental principle of Buddhism or why did the bearded 00:00:17

Buddhism or why did the bearded 00:00:21

Buddhism or why did the bearded barbarian come from the West because 00:00:21

barbarian come from the West because 00:00:25

barbarian come from the West because then is supposed to have been brought 00:00:25

then is supposed to have been brought 00:00:27

then is supposed to have been brought into China by a Hindu named bodhidharma 00:00:27

into China by a Hindu named bodhidharma 00:00:33

into China by a Hindu named bodhidharma bodhidharma is always represented as 00:00:33

bodhidharma is always represented as 00:00:35

bodhidharma is always represented as having a huge bushy beard and very 00:00:35

having a huge bushy beard and very 00:00:38

having a huge bushy beard and very fierce eyes now bodhidharma always 00:00:38

fierce eyes now bodhidharma always 00:00:44

fierce eyes now bodhidharma always insisted that he had nothing to teach 00:00:44

insisted that he had nothing to teach 00:00:46

insisted that he had nothing to teach and so why did he come that's one of the 00:00:46

and so why did he come that's one of the 00:00:53

and so why did he come that's one of the fundamental questions you might say to 00:00:53

fundamental questions you might say to 00:00:57

fundamental questions you might say to me I've often said when I'm giving a 00:00:57

me I've often said when I'm giving a 00:01:00

me I've often said when I'm giving a lecture I'm not trying to improve you 00:01:00

lecture I'm not trying to improve you 00:01:04

lecture I'm not trying to improve you I'm not trying to persuade you to a 00:01:04

I'm not trying to persuade you to a 00:01:09

I'm not trying to persuade you to a certain point of view that is to say 00:01:09

certain point of view that is to say 00:01:11

certain point of view that is to say like a preacher would convert somebody 00:01:11

like a preacher would convert somebody 00:01:13

like a preacher would convert somebody in fact I have nothing to tell you at 00:01:13

in fact I have nothing to tell you at 00:01:16

in fact I have nothing to tell you at all because where I to presume that I 00:01:16

all because where I to presume that I 00:01:21

all because where I to presume that I had something to tell you I would be 00:01:21

had something to tell you I would be 00:01:24

had something to tell you I would be like a person who picked your pocket and 00:01:24

like a person who picked your pocket and 00:01:27

like a person who picked your pocket and so do your own watch so you might say 00:01:27

so do your own watch so you might say 00:01:32

so do your own watch so you might say then why do I talk you might ask the sky 00:01:32

then why do I talk you might ask the sky 00:01:36

then why do I talk you might ask the sky why are you blue the clouds why do you 00:01:36

why are you blue the clouds why do you 00:01:39

why are you blue the clouds why do you float around birds why do you sing and 00:01:39

float around birds why do you sing and 00:01:41

float around birds why do you sing and we've been busy trying to invent 00:01:41

we've been busy trying to invent 00:01:44

we've been busy trying to invent explanations for all this and so there's 00:01:44

explanations for all this and so there's 00:01:49

explanations for all this and so there's this great Zen saying one of the old 00:01:49

this great Zen saying one of the old 00:01:52

this great Zen saying one of the old masters said when I was the young man 00:01:52

masters said when I was the young man 00:01:56

masters said when I was the young man and knew nothing of Buddhism mountains 00:01:56

and knew nothing of Buddhism mountains 00:01:59

and knew nothing of Buddhism mountains were mountains and waters were waters 00:01:59

were mountains and waters were waters 00:02:02

were mountains and waters were waters but when I began to understand a little 00:02:02

but when I began to understand a little 00:02:04

but when I began to understand a little Buddhism mountains for no longer 00:02:04

Buddhism mountains for no longer 00:02:06

Buddhism mountains for no longer mountains and waters no longer waters in 00:02:06

mountains and waters no longer waters in 00:02:10

mountains and waters no longer waters in other words when one star 00:02:10

other words when one star 00:02:14

other words when one star scientific and philosophical inquiries 00:02:14

scientific and philosophical inquiries 00:02:16

scientific and philosophical inquiries everything gets explained away in terms 00:02:16

everything gets explained away in terms 00:02:20

everything gets explained away in terms of its causes or other things that go 00:02:20

of its causes or other things that go 00:02:22

of its causes or other things that go with it or one sees that all the things 00:02:22

with it or one sees that all the things 00:02:27

with it or one sees that all the things in the world what we think are separate 00:02:27

in the world what we think are separate 00:02:31

in the world what we think are separate things are as things illusions there is 00:02:31

things are as things illusions there is 00:02:35

things are as things illusions there is nothing separate so but he said at the 00:02:35

nothing separate so but he said at the 00:02:38

nothing separate so but he said at the end but when I had thoroughly understood 00:02:38

end but when I had thoroughly understood 00:02:41

end but when I had thoroughly understood mountains were mountains and waters are 00:02:41

mountains were mountains and waters are 00:02:44

mountains were mountains and waters are waters so this is what's called direct 00:02:44

waters so this is what's called direct 00:02:53

waters so this is what's called direct pointing a Zen master was once talking 00:02:53

pointing a Zen master was once talking 00:03:00

pointing a Zen master was once talking with me and he said when water goes out 00:03:00

with me and he said when water goes out 00:03:05

with me and he said when water goes out of the wash basin down the drain does it 00:03:05

of the wash basin down the drain does it 00:03:08

of the wash basin down the drain does it go clockwise or anti-clockwise and this 00:03:08

go clockwise or anti-clockwise and this 00:03:12

go clockwise or anti-clockwise and this was all phrased in the middle of a very 00:03:12

was all phrased in the middle of a very 00:03:14

was all phrased in the middle of a very ordinary conversation and you know just 00:03:14

ordinary conversation and you know just 00:03:17

ordinary conversation and you know just seemed like a speculative question and I 00:03:17

seemed like a speculative question and I 00:03:20

seemed like a speculative question and I said oh it might go either he said no 00:03:20

said oh it might go either he said no 00:03:21

said oh it might go either he said no like this now he said which came the 00:03:21

like this now he said which came the 00:03:25

like this now he said which came the first they go ahead I said dr. Kidd yeah 00:03:25

first they go ahead I said dr. Kidd yeah 00:03:28

first they go ahead I said dr. Kidd yeah he said that's the point now it is 00:03:28

he said that's the point now it is 00:03:36

he said that's the point now it is saying too much I warned you to say that 00:03:36

saying too much I warned you to say that 00:03:40

saying too much I warned you to say that Zen is trying to point to the physical 00:03:41

Zen is trying to point to the physical 00:03:45

Zen is trying to point to the physical universe so that you could look at it 00:03:45

universe so that you could look at it 00:03:48

universe so that you could look at it without forming ideas about it that is 00:03:48

without forming ideas about it that is 00:03:53

without forming ideas about it that is saying too much but it is the general 00:03:53

saying too much but it is the general 00:03:55

saying too much but it is the general idea it's in the direction of being the 00:03:55

idea it's in the direction of being the 00:03:58

idea it's in the direction of being the right idea then people speak of the 00:03:58

right idea then people speak of the 00:04:03

right idea then people speak of the virtue of what they call motion which 00:04:03

virtue of what they call motion which 00:04:05

virtue of what they call motion which means no mind Oh moonen no thought that 00:04:05

means no mind Oh moonen no thought that 00:04:11

means no mind Oh moonen no thought that red lantern says muninn on no thought 00:04:11

red lantern says muninn on no thought 00:04:16

red lantern says muninn on no thought this is not 00:04:16

this is not 00:04:18

this is not an anti-intellectual attitude the 00:04:18

an anti-intellectual attitude the 00:04:25

an anti-intellectual attitude the ordinary simple person is just as 00:04:25

ordinary simple person is just as 00:04:28

ordinary simple person is just as bamboozled by thinking as a university 00:04:28

bamboozled by thinking as a university 00:04:31

bamboozled by thinking as a university professor you can think intellectually 00:04:31

professor you can think intellectually 00:04:38

professor you can think intellectually in a no think way that's the art it 00:04:38

in a no think way that's the art it 00:04:43

in a no think way that's the art it doesn't mean not to have any thoughts at 00:04:43

doesn't mean not to have any thoughts at 00:04:45

doesn't mean not to have any thoughts at all it means not to be fooled by 00:04:45

all it means not to be fooled by 00:04:48

all it means not to be fooled by thoughts not to be hypnotized by the 00:04:48

thoughts not to be hypnotized by the 00:04:51

thoughts not to be hypnotized by the forms of speech and images that we have 00:04:51

forms of speech and images that we have 00:04:57

forms of speech and images that we have for the world not to be hypnotized by 00:04:57

for the world not to be hypnotized by 00:05:00

for the world not to be hypnotized by them into thinking that that is the way 00:05:00

them into thinking that that is the way 00:05:02

them into thinking that that is the way the world really is so if I say this is 00:05:02

the world really is so if I say this is 00:05:07

the world really is so if I say this is a fan it isn't to begin with fan as a 00:05:07

a fan it isn't to begin with fan as a 00:05:14

a fan it isn't to begin with fan as a noise and this doesn't make the noise 00:05:14

noise and this doesn't make the noise 00:05:16

noise and this doesn't make the noise fan but just whoosh but it can be many 00:05:16

fan but just whoosh but it can be many 00:05:22

fan but just whoosh but it can be many other things in a fan it could be a back 00:05:22

other things in a fan it could be a back 00:05:27

other things in a fan it could be a back scratcher very well all sorts of things 00:05:27

scratcher very well all sorts of things 00:05:32

scratcher very well all sorts of things don't let words limit the possibilities 00:05:32

don't let words limit the possibilities 00:05:36

don't let words limit the possibilities of life actually this fan as an 00:05:36

of life actually this fan as an 00:05:41

of life actually this fan as an inscription on it written by a Zen 00:05:41

inscription on it written by a Zen 00:05:43

inscription on it written by a Zen master who is a hundred years old and it 00:05:43

master who is a hundred years old and it 00:05:47

master who is a hundred years old and it says I don't understand I don't know 00:05:47

says I don't understand I don't know 00:05:51

says I don't understand I don't know anything about it so that goes back to 00:05:51

anything about it so that goes back to 00:05:56

anything about it so that goes back to the story of Buddha Dharma that when he 00:05:56

the story of Buddha Dharma that when he 00:05:59

the story of Buddha Dharma that when he first came to China some time a little 00:05:59

first came to China some time a little 00:06:02

first came to China some time a little before 500 AD he was interviewed by the 00:06:02

before 500 AD he was interviewed by the 00:06:07

before 500 AD he was interviewed by the emperor wu of liang the Emperor was a 00:06:07

emperor wu of liang the Emperor was a 00:06:13

emperor wu of liang the Emperor was a great patron of Buddhism and said we 00:06:13

great patron of Buddhism and said we 00:06:16

great patron of Buddhism and said we have caused many monasteries to be built 00:06:16

have caused many monasteries to be built 00:06:19

have caused many monasteries to be built monks and nuns to be ordained and the 00:06:19

monks and nuns to be ordained and the 00:06:22

monks and nuns to be ordained and the scriptures to be translated into Chinese 00:06:22

scriptures to be translated into Chinese 00:06:25

scriptures to be translated into Chinese what is the merit of this and 00:06:25

what is the merit of this and 00:06:28

what is the merit of this and bodhidharma said no merit whatever 00:06:28

bodhidharma said no merit whatever 00:06:31

bodhidharma said no merit whatever well that really set the Emperor back 00:06:31

well that really set the Emperor back 00:06:33

well that really set the Emperor back because the popular understanding of 00:06:33

because the popular understanding of 00:06:36

because the popular understanding of Buddhism is that you do good things like 00:06:36

Buddhism is that you do good things like 00:06:38

Buddhism is that you do good things like that with religious things and you 00:06:38

that with religious things and you 00:06:41

that with religious things and you acquire merit this leads you to better 00:06:41

acquire merit this leads you to better 00:06:44

acquire merit this leads you to better better lives in the future so that you 00:06:44

better lives in the future so that you 00:06:46

better lives in the future so that you will eventually become liberated and so 00:06:46

will eventually become liberated and so 00:06:49

will eventually become liberated and so his he was completely set back so he 00:06:49

his he was completely set back so he 00:06:52

his he was completely set back so he said but what is the first principle of 00:06:52

said but what is the first principle of 00:06:54

said but what is the first principle of the holy doctrine and bodhidharma said 00:06:54

the holy doctrine and bodhidharma said 00:07:00

the holy doctrine and bodhidharma said vast emptiness and nothing wholly or in 00:07:00

vast emptiness and nothing wholly or in 00:07:04

vast emptiness and nothing wholly or in vast emptiness there is nothing holy so 00:07:04

vast emptiness there is nothing holy so 00:07:09

vast emptiness there is nothing holy so the Empress said who is it then that 00:07:09

the Empress said who is it then that 00:07:11

the Empress said who is it then that stands before us the implication being 00:07:11

stands before us the implication being 00:07:14

stands before us the implication being aren't you supposed to be a holy man and 00:07:14

aren't you supposed to be a holy man and 00:07:17

aren't you supposed to be a holy man and bodhidharma said I don't know so the 00:07:17

bodhidharma said I don't know so the 00:07:22

bodhidharma said I don't know so the poem says plucking flowers to which the 00:07:22

poem says plucking flowers to which the 00:07:26

poem says plucking flowers to which the butterflies come Bodhidharma says I 00:07:26

butterflies come Bodhidharma says I 00:07:29

butterflies come Bodhidharma says I don't know and another poem like it if 00:07:29

don't know and another poem like it if 00:07:34

don't know and another poem like it if you want to know where the flowers come 00:07:34

you want to know where the flowers come 00:07:36

you want to know where the flowers come from even the god of spring doesn't know 00:07:36

00:07:41

so anybody who says that he knows what 00:07:41

so anybody who says that he knows what 00:07:45

so anybody who says that he knows what Zen is is a fraud nobody knows just like 00:07:45

Zen is is a fraud nobody knows just like 00:07:55

Zen is is a fraud nobody knows just like you don't know who you are all this 00:07:55

you don't know who you are all this 00:08:01

you don't know who you are all this business about your name and your 00:08:01

business about your name and your 00:08:03

business about your name and your accomplishments your certificates what 00:08:03

accomplishments your certificates what 00:08:05

accomplishments your certificates what your friends say about you you know very 00:08:05

your friends say about you you know very 00:08:08

your friends say about you you know very well that's not you but the problem to 00:08:08

well that's not you but the problem to 00:08:12

well that's not you but the problem to know who you are is the problem of 00:08:12

know who you are is the problem of 00:08:15

know who you are is the problem of smelling your own nose when the great 00:08:15

smelling your own nose when the great 00:08:22

smelling your own nose when the great Japanese master Dogen came back from 00:08:22

Japanese master Dogen came back from 00:08:25

Japanese master Dogen came back from China in about the year 1200 to bring 00:08:25

China in about the year 1200 to bring 00:08:28

China in about the year 1200 to bring his school of Zen into Japan they asked 00:08:28

his school of Zen into Japan they asked 00:08:32

his school of Zen into Japan they asked him what did you learn in China he said 00:08:32

him what did you learn in China he said 00:08:35

him what did you learn in China he said the eyes are horizontal the nose is 00:08:35

the eyes are horizontal the nose is 00:08:37

the eyes are horizontal the nose is perpendicular 00:08:37

00:08:44

this man went on to write a tremendous 00:08:44

this man went on to write a tremendous 00:08:47

this man went on to write a tremendous book about zen there are so 00:08:47

book about zen there are so 00:08:50

book about zen there are so contradictory these people don't expect 00:08:50

contradictory these people don't expect 00:08:52

contradictory these people don't expect consistency out of his n master big big 00:08:52

consistency out of his n master big big 00:08:57

consistency out of his n master big big book called the show begins oh I talked 00:08:57

book called the show begins oh I talked 00:09:01

book called the show begins oh I talked with a Zen master about this book in 00:09:01

with a Zen master about this book in 00:09:02

with a Zen master about this book in Japan and he said all is that that's a 00:09:02

Japan and he said all is that that's a 00:09:06

Japan and he said all is that that's a terrible book it explains everything so 00:09:06

terrible book it explains everything so 00:09:10

terrible book it explains everything so clearly it gives a show away said you 00:09:10

clearly it gives a show away said you 00:09:18

clearly it gives a show away said you don't need any book for then so you see 00:09:18

don't need any book for then so you see 00:09:25

don't need any book for then so you see it is this kind of way of going about 00:09:25

it is this kind of way of going about 00:09:33

it is this kind of way of going about things this method of Zen that is so 00:09:33

things this method of Zen that is so 00:09:36

things this method of Zen that is so fascinated the west and everybody who 00:09:36

fascinated the west and everybody who 00:09:39

fascinated the west and everybody who reads about their wonders if somehow you 00:09:39

reads about their wonders if somehow you 00:09:42

reads about their wonders if somehow you see this understanding is right under 00:09:42

see this understanding is right under 00:09:45

see this understanding is right under your nose you know how it is sometimes 00:09:45

your nose you know how it is sometimes 00:09:48

your nose you know how it is sometimes and get a crowd of people to come into a 00:09:48

and get a crowd of people to come into a 00:09:50

and get a crowd of people to come into a room and you put something in the room 00:09:50

room and you put something in the room 00:09:51

room and you put something in the room that's absurd like suppose there was a 00:09:51

that's absurd like suppose there was a 00:09:54

that's absurd like suppose there was a balloon floating on the ceiling people 00:09:54

balloon floating on the ceiling people 00:09:57

balloon floating on the ceiling people could come in and not notice it at all 00:09:57

could come in and not notice it at all 00:09:58

could come in and not notice it at all or are you know somebody puts on 00:09:58

or are you know somebody puts on 00:10:04

or are you know somebody puts on something weird some kind of a funny 00:10:04

something weird some kind of a funny 00:10:06

something weird some kind of a funny necktie or something and you say to a 00:10:06

necktie or something and you say to a 00:10:09

necktie or something and you say to a person well haven't you noticed a woman 00:10:09

person well haven't you noticed a woman 00:10:13

person well haven't you noticed a woman in a new dress you know I'm jus notice 00:10:13

in a new dress you know I'm jus notice 00:10:17

in a new dress you know I'm jus notice said what is it what about it no it's 00:10:17

said what is it what about it no it's 00:10:20

said what is it what about it no it's right under your nose there staring in 00:10:20

right under your nose there staring in 00:10:21

right under your nose there staring in the face but you don't see it and Zen is 00:10:21

the face but you don't see it and Zen is 00:10:26

the face but you don't see it and Zen is exactly like that 00:10:26

00:10:31

it is very obvious the master bo kho jeu 00:10:31

it is very obvious the master bo kho jeu 00:10:35

it is very obvious the master bo kho jeu was asked we have to address and eat 00:10:35

was asked we have to address and eat 00:10:39

was asked we have to address and eat every day and how do we escape from all 00:10:39

every day and how do we escape from all 00:10:41

every day and how do we escape from all that in other words how do we get out of 00:10:41

that in other words how do we get out of 00:10:43

that in other words how do we get out of routine and he said we dress we eat he 00:10:43

routine and he said we dress we eat he 00:10:49

routine and he said we dress we eat he said I don't understand bo could you 00:10:49

said I don't understand bo could you 00:10:52

said I don't understand bo could you said if you don't understand put on your 00:10:52

said if you don't understand put on your 00:10:53

said if you don't understand put on your clothes and eat your food another Zen 00:10:53

clothes and eat your food another Zen 00:11:02

clothes and eat your food another Zen master in quite recent times was 00:11:02

master in quite recent times was 00:11:05

master in quite recent times was interviewing a student you see all these 00:11:05

interviewing a student you see all these 00:11:07

interviewing a student you see all these stories I'm telling you were connected 00:11:07

stories I'm telling you were connected 00:11:08

stories I'm telling you were connected and what I want you to do is to grasp 00:11:08

and what I want you to do is to grasp 00:11:10

and what I want you to do is to grasp intuitively the connection I was 00:11:10

intuitively the connection I was 00:11:14

intuitively the connection I was interviewing a student Western student 00:11:14

interviewing a student Western student 00:11:18

interviewing a student Western student and he said get up and walk across the 00:11:18

and he said get up and walk across the 00:11:25

and he said get up and walk across the room he got up and walked and came back 00:11:25

room he got up and walked and came back 00:11:27

room he got up and walked and came back said where your footprints another monk 00:11:27

said where your footprints another monk 00:11:38

said where your footprints another monk asked Joe shoe what is the way down 00:11:38

asked Joe shoe what is the way down 00:11:41

asked Joe shoe what is the way down Chinese the Dow he said your everyday 00:11:41

Chinese the Dow he said your everyday 00:11:46

Chinese the Dow he said your everyday mind is the way how do you get into a 00:11:46

mind is the way how do you get into a 00:11:49

mind is the way how do you get into a chord with it he said when you try to 00:11:49

chord with it he said when you try to 00:11:52

chord with it he said when you try to record you deviate 00:11:52

00:11:58

you 00:11:58

00:12:06

you 00:12:06